I first met Sharon Brooks, better known to vanners across America (and Canada, Australia and Mexico!) as “CaMel,” in ’99 at my first van run, in Hollister, California. She was in her 50’s at the time, and I was in my 30’s. Upon my friends and my arrival she immediately ran over and greeted us. She helped show us around the campgrounds, introducing everybody to the other vanners and making us feel comfortable. CaMel was a hoot, she had boundless energy and I dug her immediately. By the end of the night she had drank me under the table and was still going full steam ahead.
CaMel and her husband Darrel live in Yorba Linda, California. This spring we hung out at the Gypsy Vanner River Run #3 in Keyesville, California. After warming CaMel up to the idea, my vanner buddies Ellie, Gavin, and I excitedly sat down to shoot the shit with the legend herself. Over a couple of hours and a few beers (for each of us interviewers) and most of a bottle of wine (drank straight from the bottle no less, for CaMel), we talked about drive-thru beer stores, vans, vanning, The National Vanpoon, chili cook-offs, the Pittsburg Steelers, angel dust, and how CaMel is “forever 50” years old. She’s been a diehard vanner since ’75, and has helped to connect a nation of vanners through her work on the National Vanpoon, and her old column in Truckin’ magazine. Thanks to CaMel for indulging us by sitting for a long talk, and for blazing the trail for women vanners everywhere! CaMel interviewed by Beth Allen, Ellie Pejic, and Gavin Browne, May 2017.
So how many van events do you go to?
Depends how many there are. Sometimes you get some that are the same date as another one. But I always go to the ones in California and Arizona.
How did you get the name CaMel?
Oh shit. Not this again.
We’ll start with the basics, for people who don’t know.
Well my first van club, they said, “We hate Volkswagens. We do not want Volkswagens in the club.” But I had a Volkswagen and really wanted to be in the club. So they said, “Well you can take up the rear, and stay at the end.” Which I did. And then they said, “You better get a CB.” So I got a CB. Then they said, “What are we gonna call you?” The other girls had names like “Pretty Lady.” I said “Damned if I know.” They all started laughing. “Let’s call her CaMel.” I says, “What? CaMel?” I wasn’t into it at the time. I said, “How about... anything else?”
But CaMel it was.
The club guys would say, “Okay, CaMel. Hit the back of the line.” So I’d hit the back of the line. Finally, one day, one of the guys stopped by my house. I says, “Why do you guys call me CaMel?”
You didn’t even didn’t know why?
No! I wanted anything else… “Pretty, Lovely, Stupid, anything!” And he says, “You know how camels can go without water? Well a Volkswagen doesn’t have a radiator. Ha, ha, ha!” I didn’t think it was funny. But they called me CaMel anyhow. After awhile, I started writing for the club. I was the one who did their club newsletter.
Was that the National Vanpoon?
The National Vanpoon came later when I was in the Steel Valley Street Vans in Youngstown, Ohio. My first club was Compulsive Truckers. They’re the ones that called me CaMel. So their newsletter was first. The Compulsive Truckers always partied with the Steel Valley vanners, so after the Compulsive Truckers disbanded I ended up in Steel Valley Street Vans. The National Vanpoon was the Steel Valley club newsletter.
When did you meet Darrel? He’s laughing. I can hear him laughing.
Well, it was right around that time.
Was Darrel a vanner?
No, he was a biker. But he was a traveler. He liked to travel on a bike, which is nice, but I preferred a van, because if it rains you have a roof!
So how did you meet Darrel if you’re doing the vanning thing, and he’s doing the biker thing? Where did you meet in person?
Hmm. Darrel, where’d I meet you?
He’s laughing.
Oh, the drive thru, where I was getting beer for the girl that was too young to get beer. Her and I took the van to get beer, and Darrel was the guy working with the long hair.
Was that in Ohio?
Yeah.
So he was selling the beer, and that’s how you met. Were you in this van?
Yes, this one.
Man bait!
So I would always get this young girl Michelob Light, because that’s what she wanted. I would buy it because she was not old enough.
How old was she?
About 17. So one time, I didn’t have her with me, and I thought, I’m not gonna get Michelob Light, I’m gonna get what I like.
And what do you like?
At the time, Genesee Cream Ale. So I pulled in, and Darrel walks up and he brought me Michelob Light. I told my friend with me, “You know, he’s kind of cute. He seems really nice,” and she said, “Well why don’t you ask him to go out?” I said, “I don’t do things like that.” But hey, after a few beers I went back to the drive through…
You went back to the drive through, ha! That’s awesome. Then what happened?
I said, “What are you doing after work?” and he said, “Well, I work until 11 o’clock.” I said, “11 o’clock at night? Oh man, I’m usually asleep by then, but OK, that’s all right.” So Darrel decided that he was going to come to my house.
You invited him to your house already?
Oh hell, where else were we supposed to go?
In the van!
Not in the winter!
So you invited him to your house and he came over after work —
Yeah. And he had a pizza. I ate the pizza and immediately fell asleep. I said, “I think it’s time for you to go home.”
Do you remember the first time you took Darrel to a van run?
It didn’t take too long, because he liked traveling in the van. I took him to one of the Steel Valley runs. We had a good time, and it was a big run, because those were big.
Like how many vans would you estimate?
Probably a couple hundred. This was around ’77.
What year did you start vanning?
I started vanning in ’75 with the Volkswagen.
How old were you?
In my 30’s.
So when did you ditch the Volkswagen and get this baby?
I bought this brand new in ’77.
How did it get customized?
Well I got the van and the club guys knew a customizer in Ohio.
So the van interior was your vision?
My whole idea was to make it “modern.” I like chrome, glass and mirrors, and I like black and white. The guy who customized it also did another custom van called “Joni Centerfold.” I wish you’d seen it, it was similar to mine, only Joni was in blue. It was beautiful. The vans then, everybody had a wood floor, everybody had to have wood shit, and I said, “I don’t like woods. I don’t want woods. I want carpet.” I was like, “Well I don’t know who to get to work on it” and the club guys said,“Oh we know.” But the guy they were thinking of, Dave, well, I was always scared of him.
Why were you scared of him?
Because he was a big bully. I said, “Okay, fine. But I’m not going over to see him alone.” So one of the club guys went with me.
Was the van empty inside?
Oh yeah. It was a brand new van. It only had one seat in it.
Woah, it only had one seat?
It was a cargo van. It had nothing, because I knew I was going to get it customized how I wanted.
Was it a big deal to save up the money to get it all done?
Yeah. I did things that I normally don’t do. I did save the money, and it took a while. Everybody said, “Dave is the guy you have to talk to.. But Dave was a real... well, he was sort of a pain, but he knew what he was doing. So I told him what I wanted, which was something “modern.” He said, “Okay, I’ll work on it. Don’t call me, I’ll call you.”
So how long did it take him to finish?
It didn’t really take him that long. It only took a few weeks. I felt like I was waiting and waiting – but I wasn’t going to call him because I knew better! Finally, he called, and he says, “You want to come up here and get your van?” So I drove over, walked in and looked at the van, and I was thinking…“This is not my van. This is not my van.” It was the most beautiful thing I had ever seen.
That is so cool. Do you remember how much it cost you?
The basic interior as you see it, the bed, the seats, all the basics cost me about $1,900. Do you know how cheap that is? Do you know what that would cost now?
Right! So you were happy.
I was. I couldn’t believe it. I just couldn’t. I will never forget that.
How great did you feel, taking off in your finished van?
Well it didn’t have a paint job yet, just the interior was done. It only had the two doors (van has gullwing door on side now). It took a while to get it all done.
Were you the only woman in the van club back then?
No. There was another one, but she was only 17 years old.
And she had a van?
She had a beat up van. She had been a friend of the family, she kind of grew up in vanning. So here I was with my new van. And the guys had a fit!
Why, because it was so beautiful?
Yeah, because the interior was ridiculous!
Ha ha. Did you name it then?
No. I didn’t really have a name for it. Sometimes I call it “Old Slurpee.” I have a few other names. I got license plates when we moved to California that said “DA CAMEL.” And I had those for a while.
And the paint job on the back, what does that mean to you?
If you come to my house, you would see what it means. Everything is chrome, glass and mirrors.
Do you have a mirror above your bed at home too? [laughing]
Oh god, no!
So this has been your van since ‘77. Have you had to replace the engine or anything?
Still have the same engine, but it has been rebuilt twice.
How many miles are on it?
Between 5 and 6 hundred thousand. We have been across this country so many damn times! And to Canada.
You went vanning in Canada?
Well, yeah! Ohio is right next to Ontario. And then Quebec. We would go on runs there. I got a Best in Show, but only one time.
One Best of Show? Why only one?
There were a hell of a lot more vans back then, more than there are now.
So it was harder to win. When I got the Best in Show the van did not have the jack and eight ball mural on the back. It had the lady butterfly. It was a lady butterfly holding an eight ball. It was beautiful. And the paint on it, was a silver pearl.
When did you get the chain link steering wheel?
Right after I got it. And then chain link around there (gestures inside van). Darrel made that and the door handles. Custom made!
So, how many women had cool vans like you?
Joanie Centerfold.
So Joanie was your competition?
No, no. She wasn’t because there were so many different categories and mine, at the time, was considered a late model conservative custom.
What does that mean,“conservative custom?”
Conservative means like what I’ve got. And Joanie, she had a lot more money put into hers. And then some of the others had all this gaudy stuff.
I can’t believe this would be “conservative” because to me your van seems over the top.
It wasn’t back then. But also, my van wasn’t like the other vans. It didn’t have a wood floor and it was all about the judging sheets. Everything got points, like if you had a wood floor, you got points for it.
Wood floors got more points than carpet?
Well, it’s more expensive. Most everyone had wood floors, and some of them had that fluffy shit.
What kind of stereo did you have?
8-track player!
Do you still have a CB?
It’s been in there for many years but it’s been long dead.
So you used to judge at van runs?
I also used to judge for Steel Valley when they had the nationals. When we would judge, there would be 100 vans.
So when you had 100 vans in the mix, what do you judge on? What were you looking at?
Here’s the way the judging sheets worked. You got points. Like, how many points for the floor? Well, usually if it was a wood floor, points were pretty high. And if it was carpet, they were pretty low.
Would you guys judge on portholes? Like shapes of portholes?
No… more on how everything was used and if it all went together. And then they started judging for whatever you had hanging on your van.
Like lanterns on the inside?
No, no. Outside.
Like what? What would you hang on the outside?
Oh, these little doo-dads.
Doo-dads!
That’s what you might as well call them. And just to get points because they got extra points for things like the grill.
Did murals get points?
Yes of course.
Wheels?
Oh yeah. The hard part was judging — does the outside go with the inside? There’s nothing worse than somebody with a yellow van, with something on the inside that is totally the opposite.
What happened to your lady butterfly mural? It just got old and faded?
The lady butterfly was beautiful. Yeah, it faded. This van has never been in a garage.
Never been in a garage!?
Other than whenever I had to take it in to get it fixed.
It’s in great shape! Well, you’ve been in California though so that’s better for it than being in Ohio, right?
Yeah but still, it sits outside and the sun beats it. And the other side, if you look at it, is really rusted. It needs some work.
Rust, the cancer.
Yeah. It sits outside and that’s bad on paint. Well, the first paint job was the pearl, it had a satin sheen. It was called snow. It was opalescent. But as I headed out here, the sun faded the lady butterfly. So, I wanted another one. And the lady butterfly had an afro like what I wore.
You had a white lady afro? (I’ve only seen CaMel with straight, long hair.)
I never had long hair until I retired. Now I don’t give a shit. But yes I did have an afro. I used to cut it, and then I’d go to McDonald’s and get straws and cut strips about that long (gestures a few inches). And then I’d go get bobby pins and a goddamn home permanent at the drug store. I would sit there and I would put all these rolls with bobby pins in it. Then perm it.
So when’d you come out to California, and why?
To get the fuck away from cold Ohio. We came out here end of the 80’s. We had a Honda car, and Darrel drove that with a trailer with his bike on it, and I drove the van, with the dog. We had friends in Yucaipa, Darrel’s best military buddy.
Was your club sad when you left?
Oh my God, they had a fit.
Are they still a club?
They certainly are.
Have you ever broke down on the way to a van runs?
That’s a story in itself! Slurpee does not like Kansas. Slurpee does not like Colorado. Slurpee does not like Wyoming. Slurpee does not like a lot of places!
Slurpee’s been around.
Yep. The very first engine rebuild happened when we were coming back from one of the nationals, and some of our friends lived in Kansas. We stopped by their place, and I just knew the van wasn’t running right. When we left, she was okay at first. But then she started making funny knocking sounds. We were driving down the highway, clank clank clank clank clank clank clank. I said, “I don’t think this is good.” It was in Abilene, Kansas. And we had a guy with us who needed a ride. Of course, nobody rides with us because something always happens to us and then they’re stuck! We got to Albiene and we could see there was a Dodge dealership there, and I said, “We’d better stop!” Well, we blew the engine. We had to have it rebuilt. This was the first rebuild. So there we were, and it was hotter than hell. July in Abilene, Kansas. We were stranded, and the guy who worked on the van, he was just a young guy, he looked like he was about 18. But, I’d say that boy had some drugs, because he got it done in two days!
Have you done any of the work on it yourself, or do you hire people?
I don’t touch it. We know some things, but some things we don’t.
So you’ve been all over the country with Slurpee?
Usually because I was stranded somewhere! Another time when we still lived in Ohio, we were coming out to a national in California. One of our friends was driving behind us, following us. Well, we had a trailer that Darrel built that we were hauling, and we were going through Kansas, through a tornado area.
Oh, shit.
We were outrunning the tornado, but the lid flew off of the trailer and almost hit our friend’s van behind us! They had to chase the trailer lid clear down the road. And then we had another little problem before we made it to the nationals here in California. The van quit, in Colorado. It sure doesn’t like Colorado. Slurpee does not like Colorado much more than she likes Kansas, or Wyoming. [laughter]. Or Indiana, or Illinois.
What does Slurpee like?
Sitting in the driveway! At least it seems like it, because we were stranded twice in Albiene.
You were like, “Not again!”
Oh yeah. And another time we were in another little town when the when the van quit. It wouldn’t start, and we were in this tiny little place. I had just put in a couple thousand dollars into it, to make sure everything was okay. So we get to this garage but the mechanic had just left. Okay. Well of course it’s Friday. So here we are, in this beautiful town Pocahontas or something like that, with one restaurant, one gas station. That’s it. And we were stranded there. When the mechanic finally came and looked at the van, the thing broken was one of the things we never replaced. Anyhow, he had one.
Whew! So you were lucky. The cosmos were looking out for you.
Well, yes and no! Damn it was a minor part, something that never goes wrong. So away we go. A day late, here we go. It has always been like that.
It’s a hobby. That’s what vanning is, right?
Oh, let me tell you! At that particular time it was not a hobby, that was not what I was calling her. And it wasn’t Slurpee either!
So talk some more about the National Vanpoon.
Well, Vanpoon was the newsletter for Steel Valley.
And later you got asked you to write a column for Truckin’ magazine. How many years did you do that?
About five.
What would you write about?
What didn’t I write about! Basically, I wrote about the van, and vanning. One of my favorites, well, I love Bruce Springsteen. What’s the one song, you know, about sitting around telling stories about glory days.
“Glory Days."
That was one of my beautiful articles. That one was.
So you wrote about the vibe of vanning, the culture?
Talking about what we are, yeah. We would be sitting around like we are doing now, talking about glory days. Most everything I wrote was futuristic.
So why did you quit writing the vanning column?
Well, the magazine got into mini trucks. And vanning articles kind of died. There weren’t enough vanners. The biggest problem I had with Poon was that when I moved out here, I used to travel across the country. I would meet people. And nobody knew what events were going on in other states.
This is before the internet too, so you had to spread the word and help connect people!
Oh God, yes. I told people If you’ve got a flyer, send it to me and I’ll put it in the events column. I typed the Vanpoon at home. And I had a little subscription, and it got big. The biggest one I had was 32 pages.
Wow!
And I hand typed that.
And you would mail it out to people?
Oh yes. Robbie and Carol used to come over and they’d draw a great big CaMel on my mirror coffee table in coke. This was after it was done. I had a copy machine, and we’d be putting it together. And we’d get fucked up. And I’d have the pages all numbered, and every once in a while some of the pages would end up upside down.
I was gonna ask about coke. The eight ball on the back of your van. The eight ball is a reference to coke?
No.
No?
No. Not at all.
Then what is it? You’re smiling at me. Then what is it?
That coffee table I just talked about, it’s all mirrored. In the center, there are two big jacks and an eight ball.
What kind of eight ball?
Well there’s the eight balls that used to have the… the toy… you ask it questions…
The magic eight ball.
Yeah. And I love jacks.
So that was in the middle of the coffee table? Like under glass?
Yeah.
I thought that it was a reference to coke.
No. It has nothing to do with it.
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So what’s your favorite party vice? What do you like to do? Like, back in the day. Right now you’re drinking pomegranate wine, but what did you drink before? What was your favorite?
Beer. And more beer.
But no coke?
Well...
Only when you were typing? What about pills?
No pills.
What about marijuana?
I don’t like marijuana. I don’t smoke cigarettes, either.
What about psychedelics? Mushrooms?
No. I tried to take those, and those were the awfulest. I just wanted to taste them. But oh, they tasted like crap.
So you were just a beer drinker.
Basically. Well, we got into some other things. Like angel dust.
Now or back then?
Oh God, back then. In Ohio it was done on mint leaves.
Mint leaves?
Yes. And then they’re rolled. With the stuff in it, yeah. And it tastes like mint.
So now you’re not drinking beer anymore?
Not if I have wine.
Why did you switch over to wine?
Because I got tired of beer. But I’ll tell you, the Coors brewery is going downhill because of us. Oh, we vanners used to always go to the goddamn Coors brewery, in Golden, Colorado, I don’t know how many times we went. Our friends had Coors tattoos. We’d take the tour, and then you get the free beer. Well, about the second or third time we went there they had a great big book that had all the Coors trivia. Things like“How many Cs, Os, Rs, and S’ are on a Coors can, all total?” And on down the list. None of the guys knew any answers. And the next year, when we went back, they knew all the answers. The workers remembered us. “Oh, you were the ones that were here with the vans.”
Darrel: “Oh, you’re the crew from last year.”
Oh, even Darrel remembers.
Oh, he sure does. He oughta. We still have the book with all the trivia.
So how many Cs?
Oh, I have no idea. I wasn’t about to count those suckers.
Darrel: 22.
22 Cs. How many Os?
Darrel: 34.
Did you win a prize from Coors?
No. It was just something fun. Everyone studied up.
Let’s talk about women in vanning. How many other women were with their own vans, besides you?
Not a whole lot.
Why do you think that was?
Because they just weren’t into it. Because it was a man’s thing.
Do you think it’s still the same now, still kind of a man’s thing?
Well, it is… Yeah, it is. Because women... They’re more interested in raising families and stuff like that. I wasn’t.
What influenced you on wanting to be a vanner?
It was just the type of the person I am.
And what type of person is that?
An idiot... It was just something that happened. I was at the right place at the wrong time or the right place at the left... whatever.
You just fell into it.
Yeah. And I’m a people person.
You are.
I might drive them nuts but goddammit, I’m a people person.
So you’re gonna be doing this for forever?
Well at least till I’m 51. There’s just so many stories, so many trips, so many things. And a lot of them were written in the Vanpoon.
Do you still have any of those old Vanpoons?
Of course I do! I have every issue.
So what advice do you have for vanners today? And for woman vanners like us.
Be as stupid as you can you get and still have fun!
Do you have kids?
Not a breeder. I never had kids, so I did my own life.
Anything you want to do on your van or are you happy with the way it is now?
Well, right now I need another new mural because see this (points out fading). I don’t know, I thought about it but it’s a major job because there’s rust and stuff. That’s a lot of money, for my age. Darrel and I have traveled all over. We’ve been to two van nationals in Australia…
Damn, Australia?
Yeah. We have friends in Australia.
What kind of vans do they drive there?
Holden.
So about how many vans would show up at an Australian van run?
We went back in 1987, then ‘89. There were quite a few vans, but let me tell you those people—
Know how to party?
Oh, ho, ho.
Do they do angel dust in mint leaves?
Damned if I know. All I know is that god damned beer was enough to kick your ass.
Friendly Australians and strong beer!
Oh, yes! The second time we visited we went from Sydney to Perth and then we drove down from there into Melbourne for the national so we’ve been all over Australia.
How many vans would you say were in the Australian show?
Darrel, do you remember?
Darrel: About 60. We also went to a van run in Mexico.
Yeah? Where in Mexico?
San Philippe.
San Philippe? Oh, Baja. You went to Baja, California.
Well that’s Mexico.
Darrel: The van has been from San Philippe, California to the tip of Nova Scotia, Newfoundland and Quebec.
Yeah, and how many engines? Three, right?
I don’t want to go through Kansas again!
Darrel: Yeah, this is its third one. Second rebuild.
Are you hip to any of the new van magazines that have come out, like Rolling Heavy, or Custom Vanner?
No. I like Consumer Reports. Uh... what else do I like? Organic Gardening.
Okay, so what are some of your favorite bands? Let’s talk about that.
Oh, Jesus, that’s...
Lay it on us sister.
Who?
I said, lay it on us, sister.
Is that a new group?
Aaahhh, no.
Well, I’m an old rock and roller.
Like, what? What do you like?
Old rock and roll!
Like The Rolling Stones?
Oh, of course, yeah.
Black Sabbath?
Yeah, of course. Yeah.
Judas Priest?
Yes.
So you like metal?
Yeah, I like that too. But I don’t like fucking rap.
What do you listen to when you guys are driving?
Nothing because we can’t hear. Because of the wind noise.
Who drives?
It depends on how much wine I have.
I wish there were more women vanners. Seems like van mags just have pictures of chicks hanging out in vans, not driving their own vans!
You want me to pose hanging out in the van?
Did you ever pose for photos like that?
Are you kidding? Hell, they would’ve thrown my ass in trash! No. Those photos are just a come on for the guys.
Yeah, I know. It’s a hot rod magazine kind of thing, it’s kind of been going on forever but I get tired of it.
I don’t even pay attention to it. It was a come on. To glamorize vanning.
Which van club are you in?
WHAAT.
What?
WHAAT.
Oh, you’re in the WHAAT vanners! That’s right.
I bet you don’t know what Whaat stands for. It was Darrel that named it! We Hate All Asshole Truckers. That was it originally. And then there’s What a Hell of Ass and Tits. W-H-A-A-T!
So how many people are in your club?
Six people now. We had quite a few people and then of course they had kids and then went on to other things. They all have their own van clubs. I used to be president of the Southern California Van Council.
You did? For how many years?
Just one year. It just kind of fizzled. A van council has all these different clubs in it. But most of these clubs have fizzled out and are gone.
So how hard is it to use your chain link steering wheel? Is it weird?
I have had it for so long I don’t know any different. Everybody out here in California, they call it Mexican. It wasn’t Mexican in Ohio!
There’s the joke that you get those so you can wear handcuffs while you are driving.
Yeah, I hear that all the time. But I don’t know nothing about that. I just thought chains were neat.
What is your favorite thing about your van?
A new engine!
What about the interior?
Everything! Except it needs some things replaced. We dyed this a couple of times because the sun had faded it (carpet). And we replaced all that (gestures to some stuff in van), and all this here, we will never be able to replace this, because you can’t find it anymore. To restore this van would probably cost a bloody fortune.
Not $1,900 anymore! Hey, you haven’t had to go the bathroom the whole time we’ve been talking and we all had to go to the bathroom at least once.
Did you see my port-a-potty?
Yes, right there in the van!
After all these years of vanning, my Christmas present two years ago was my port-a-potty. I was tired of pissing in a bucket. When you would get the off the bucket the damn thing would be stuck to your ass.
Vanners are always in the middle of fixing things. It’s always a work in progress.
It’s a problem with me, because every once in awhile I get asked, “You want to show your van?” “No.” “Why not?” “Because I’d have to clean all this goddamn shit out!"
At least it always looks like you’re having a good time! What do you think about vanning becoming popular again? The resurgence of vanning and van culture?
It will never be what it was. I like to say,“What it was, is what it was.” It may be something different. But it will never be what it was.
PICTURED ABOVE: (Top to Bottom: CaMeL back in the day, photo courtesy Pam Richardson; CaMeL with wine, photo by Gavin Brown; Darrel, photo by Shonzie; CaMeL's van front and back, photos by Shonzie; CaMeL back in the day #2 with patches, photo courtesy Pam Richardson; slideshow photos by Gavin Brown, Beth and Shonzie; CaMeL does the limbo at a van run, photo courtesy of Sluggo; Van Scan courtesy of Connie Bellinger-Williams; CaMeL with Steelers bib, photo courtesy of Sluggo; The interviewers - Beth, Gavin and Ellie; Inside CaMeL's van; photo by Beth. Big thanks to Sluggo, Pam Richardson and Connie for images!)
